#50 - Marina Purkiss - Tells it like it is...
Marina Purkiss is a political commentator, writer, presenter and host of The Trawl podcast with Jemma Forte. In this episode we chat Tories, the Labour Party, Brexit, corruption, the media, Boris Johnson, protest, democracy and what a better future could look like. Marina takes no prisoners. Hear our conversation at : https://linktr.ee/jameskennedypodcast
TRANSCRIPT
JAMES KENNEDY
Hey, gorgeous people. Welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. How have you been? You missed me? I know, it's been a while in between episodes again. I'm sorry. I promise my podcast game will be much better really soon, but it's a busy time for me right now dude! You know, I got a deadline looming for my second book. So I'm racing to finish that, I'm rehearsing several times a week with the mighty James Kennedy and the Underdogs as we prepare to grace some stage and bust some ear drums in a town near you. And I'm fighting the law man, you know, in my ongoing case with the police, which has now been escalated. But I can't say anything about that yet, But you know me, I certainly will when I can.
And some of you might know I've been quite unwell for most of this year. For the past six or seven months, I've been in and out of hospital. I've been spending half the week in bed. I've had absolutely everything tested. And it's been quite a bizarre and worrying and frustrating time for me because I'm not used to being ill, I was always quite fit and healthy, you know. But whatever this thing is has trashed my productivity. You know, I'm a guy that used to sleep for four hours and crush it and work around the clock, and you know, the five different roles at the same time. That's the pace I used to like operating at. But I just haven't been able to. So now I'm approaching the summer time. I'm miles behind schedule on the book. There's been some hurdles with the band as well that we're making up for lost time with that. And that's why I've been dropping the ball with the weekly podcast episodes as well, which I hate doing. I hate it when there's a disruption in the momentum of the thing. I enjoy doing the podcast. I really love having these conversations and sharing them with you guys, and I think having gaps in between episodes just kind of ruins the flow and the momentum of the thing. So I've decided that now we're at Episode 50, I think that's a nice round number to park it up in the pit stop just for a few weeks whilst I finish the book, get the band up and running to the point where we're we're back out there on the road gigging, which is not going to be very long at all. You know, downsize a few commitments, tick a few things off the fucking to do list and then get back on the saddle full throttle.
So I know for most professional podcasters listening to this would be like Episode 50, dude, that's lame. You only got to 50 before you had to park up. But, you know what, fuck you. Basically, Yes, that's that's the deal. I'm very proud of the past 50 episodes. I think they're a great archive of some brilliant perspective, knowledge and insight and just great conversations with some great minds and some great people. So if you haven't heard all of the other episodes yet, rather than ploughing on to the next one, go back and have listen to some of the previous episodes, there's some really, really good stuff in there, whether it's on the subject of politics, philosophy, the music industry, food, health and nutrition, mental health, climate change, activism and loads, loads more so Trawl through and have a little look. And there's more than enough there to keep you entertained whilst I get my shit together over the next few weeks. And we'll be back with season two right after the summer.
So thank you so much to everyone that's followed the podcast. This past year, we've made it into the top five most shared podcasts globally within the first year. And this was something I didn't even think I was going to be doing for more than three episodes. So, I really appreciate all the love and support. I'm so glad that you've been enjoying listening to the podcast. We will continue doing this thing. Fear not. I've got loads of awesome guests already booked in and confirmed and lined up for season two. So if you haven't already subscribed to the podcast, please find the James Kennedy podcast on whatever platform you're listening to it on. Give it a follow. Give it a subscribe, give it a share, give it a Star rating. And, we'll be back really, really soon. I promise. But check this out.
If you're gonna go out, you gotta go out with a bang, right? And we have saved a goodie for the final episode of Season one. We are going out with a bang. We are going out with a fucking explosion and fireworks, baby. Because we are joined today by the one and only, the mighty, the unstoppable and the awesome Marina Purkiss. That's right. Political commentator, podcaster, bringer of truth, bombs and destroyer of corrupt, lying, hypocritical bastards everywhere. Marina, Thanks so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. I'm super excited for what's probably gonna unfold in the conversation today. How you doing?
MARINA PURKISS
That was such a lovely intro. I'm all the better for it. Thank you, James!
JAMES KENNEDY
No problems at all. And no word of a lie either, dude. I mean, before we jump in then, right? Just a little check in, You know? How are you personally? What's been going on with you? How are you doing?
MARINA PURKISS
Me personally? Oh, it's actually really dull. My personal life is very dull. I am on maternity leave at the moment with my second baby. I've got an eight month old and a 2.5 year old. I get back to work full time in September, so I'm basically just using this time in between sorting nappy changes and stuff to try and hold the government to account
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, as I said before we started recording here, I have never had so many excited and positive comments as when I posted online that you were coming on the show. So there's clearly a lot of love for you out there, man, and what you do, And I think that is mirrored in your social media presence, which is absolutely fucking insane. Dude, you're crushing it.
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah, it's actually getting to a little bit of a scary place now, because I have to really think before I hit the send button and I used to be quite happy, you know, having a few drinks and then crafting something and then hitting the the tweet button. And actually, I just know I can't do that now because I get pile-ons quite frequently. Especially given Elon Musk's new algorithm. Because, you know, now we're fed stuff that provokes us, you know, and the bit that says 'for you'? That feed is pretty provocative stuff. I get a lot of bell ends there that sort of trigger me if I look at that particular feed. Oh, and another thing actually to say is that, today is a good day because we hit 1 million downloads for our podcast.
JAMES KENNEDY
I saw congratulations, man! That's amazing. Congratulations.
MARINA PURKISS
I can't believe it. It's again something just Gemma and I do out of our bedrooms, out of our home office. And, we're so rough with it.
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, it's an awesome podcast. I love listening to it because for me, it's like political therapy, because you can often feel a little bit like, is it just me, am I the only fucking sane person? Am I losing my mind here? And you listen to that and it's like, Oh, no, it's not just me, right? Cool. I feel so much better now. Yeah, it's like a relief, you know
MARINA PURKISS
You know, you've got things like the rest of politics for the real insight. You've got news agents for the analysis, and you've got us for a bit of that...it's like chatting with your mates, like it's that sort of a chat, and it's sort of Yeah, make you feel sane and you're not alone. And also to have a bit of a laugh, because the state of the country, I mean, you have to sort of laugh at it. Otherwise you could cry.
JAMES KENNEDY
0h 100% man. And that actually segues perfectly into my first question that I wanted to ask you today. It's quite a biggie, but I'm hoping that it's gonna be a launching pad for the rest of the conversation.
And it's this. So if you were to give a synopsis of where we are at in 2023 in this independent, noble, prosperous, free nation that we find ourselves in to someone who didn't know anything at all about our political or social situation, how would you describe it? What would you tell them about where we're at in Britain in 2023?
MARINA PURKISS
Gosh, broken. We are in the position now where I think we have just isolated ourselves so much. We have made a laughing stock of ourselves. As a result of the government and its very sympathetic press. We are more divided than we've ever been as a result of 13 years of consecutive governments and austerity. We are poorer than we've ever been, and I just can't see at the moment, I don't know how we get better. That's the real sad state of affairs because even if you look at the opposition, which, by the way I will lend my vote to them because I'm desperate to get the tories out. But I think because of the dominance of media in this country, I think the two parties that we've got in this two party state means they are so close to each other now that if we really want change and God, we are desperate for it now because of those 13 years, I feel like we're not going to get a great deal of it. So it feels like we're in a bit of a sorry state of affairs. A bit of a pickle, don't you think James?
JAMES KENNEDY
I 100% do. Yeah, beautifully put. But, you know, let me just tell you, Marina, you don't have to be polite or diplomatic on my show. You can tell us what you really think
MARINA PURKISS
Oh, OK. I can also say, I think the people in charge, I have never known a more vile bunch of people, and I don't really hate people. But I hate this bunch of Tory governments, and I hate the enablers, I do. I hate the people that got them into this position and peddle their bullshit. Oh, in fact, I just did draw on something that, I did tweet about quite a lot yesterday because Adam Bienkov, who is the political editor at Byline Times, he wrote this brilliant article about Johnson and sort of the rise and fall. And did you know that, back in, I think it was ages ago, but Johnson wrote an article where he talked about how to be successful in politics and one of the things he talked about, he actually said, to be successful, you have to surround yourself with, stooges who are disciplined and deluded by people. And they so want to believe in their relationship with the leader that they will basically shut their eyes to the crap, to the nonsense, to the lies. I mean, has he ever been more candid? Has he ever been more accurate or bang on the money? That is exactly what he did with his government. Because he didn't hire for talent did he, James? He hired people for
JAMES KENNEDY
Sycophants
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah, they're all like blindly loyal who saw him as their meal ticket, who, you know, who were able to ride on his coat tails. And that's exactly what he did. And when I go through my Twitter feed Oh, God, you the you know, people like Nile Gardner, for example. Or like all these people are like - guys, you are the stooges. You are the disciplined, deluded stooges, and you kind of see it
JAMES KENNEDY
Oh 100%. And I'm sure you've seen the WhatsApp messages as well, right?
MARINA PURKISS
I haven't no. I feel like honestly, I feel like I stopped going on Twitter for, like, 10 minutes and something else happens.
JAMES KENNEDY
Dude, you've got to see these things. It's exactly what you're talking about. The sycophancy, it's fucking hilarious. You've got, like, Cummings calling him dude and big boss. And, you know, Dorries is on there saying how I love how cheeky you get when you've had a drink and all this sort of stuff. It's fucking, you're like, it's terrible.
MARINA PURKISS
You've got a feel for Dorries, haven't you? She got shafted. She got absolutely shot. All of that sucking up, all of that literally, you know, being wheeled out to defend the indefensible and talking shit and flicking her hair and to fight for what? To stand down for mid Bedfordshire. And on top of that, she has been culled from his list of honours.
JAMES KENNEDY
Beautiful justice. That's what you get. That's Karma
MARINA PURKISS
Well it's about bloody time. Karma's been like, What, has she been on retirement or what?
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, she's certainly been slacking. She's certainly slacking. I mean, I am hopeful that Karma is going to deliver a beautiful, fucking brutal blow to every single member of this government. At some point, I'm still waiting for it, though you know, I hope so.
MARINA PURKISS
But then you see like so Nicola Sturgeon. She got arrested obviously. And then she's been released. She has been released pending further investigation, but I just thought I want to see some arrests. Early arrests, starting with Michelle Mone. Arrest her, please. This is what I need to see. This is the justice I think so many of us are desperate for because at the moment again, that VIP bloody lane and the billions of taxpayers money, not a single head, has been made to roll as a result. And that is unforgivable.
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, I think the point you make is a serious one because they are literal criminals, These people, I mean, they are all guilty of being an accessory to a criminal system that is killing people. People are starving on the streets, you know? I know we're venting here, but I mean, you know what? When you said there should be arrests, and I know you mean that and I totally agree with you, you know, these are criminals, and these are crimes against society and crimes against democracy as well. And these guys are mincing around in their private jets and their yachts and rubbing shoulders with oligarchs and people who have got their billions stuffed away in tax havens. Who don't pay tax whilst the rest of us are having to choose between heating and eating. It's fucking brutal and it is a crime and you're exactly right. And I 100% agree.
MARINA PURKISS
No, no, no, no. Hang on. That's for the little people. The breaking of laws, the illegal stuff, that's for the little people. The people in government, they're never found to be doing illegal things. They are found to be doing unlawful things
JAMES KENNEDY
Oh Ok, right
MARINA PURKISS
Do you see the difference there? It's clever. It's done on purpose because if you or I commit a massive fraud or you do something like that, it's found to be illegal. But if you do it in positions of power, like for example, you know some of the VIP lane stuff it was found in the high Court to be unlawful. And the reason it's unlawful and not illegal is because for it to be legal, Parliament has to pass a law to make it illegal. And do you think they're going to do that? Do you think they're gonna pass the law to make the stuff they do illegal? No, the whole thing is rigged.
JAMES KENNEDY
Oh, for sure. No No, it totally is. But how do we get to this point? Because we don't live in a literal dictatorship yet. You know, people did vote for this shit. And you know these people in this government, if you can call them that, You know, they they're not representative of anybody I've ever met in life. And I've been around a while. I know people from both sides of the social and political spectrum, and I don't know who these fuckers represent. So why do people vote for this? And why do we keep putting ourselves in the fucking flames?
MARINA PURKISS
A few things. I think again the fact that a massive chunk of our press is basically dominated by you know, the conservatives or in the pockets of the conservatives, or vice versa. And even, you know, the the Lefty BBC with its director general and all the rest of all the big sort of right wing or conservatives in charge. I think that the message is that especially for things like Brexit, we never got the real story around Brexit. And also the other thing is the lying that's allowed in politics. So given the lies that were spouted by the leave side and also spouted continuously to this day every single day by the Conservative Party. The reason that happens is because we have a completely unpoliced Wild West when it comes to our politics and lying is not just without consequence. It's actually rewarded because people believe the lies like we saw with Brexit like we saw with oven ready deal or all the other lies that they say. And there is absolutely no consequence. I think we've got to a really bad point now where, and last week she stood up in the House Of Commons and she said that, approvals for the first round of migrants, you know, the processing that the number had gone down by 17,000. This is complete horseshit. Yvette Cooper stood up, corrected, her number has actually gone up. The speaker of the House of the deputy speaker actually invited her to correct herself and correct the record. And Suella Braverman shook her head and refused. And that's where we are now. So it doesn't matter because you can lie. I mean you can lie outside of Parliament freely, which they do. You can put a big lie on a bus, but you can also lie in Parliament now and because of the flacidity of the speakers and the fact that our political system is completely exposed and vulnerable when it comes to bad actors. They can just do anything they want now.
JAMES KENNEDY
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it, This era that we're living in now whereby the lying is so overt and out there that we're almost desensitised to it now it's almost like it's just become normal and perfectly acceptable, you know?
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah, it's Trumpian. So even what Johnson is doing now where he's trying to discredit the privileges committee is Trumpian. It's like Trump when he's trying to discredit the vote. And also just Jesus, the the lies that are being peddled out by once respectable sort of papers as well, or people who consider themselves to be respectable journalists saying that it's a witch hunt, blaming the blob, blaming the globalists. Just blame the blobalists like it's just so bloody lazy and also, the fundamentals are that privileges committee did not oust Johnson. The only person that ousted Johnson was Johnson. Because that privileges committee, yes, they found him guilty to have misled parliament and recommended a suspension. It was only a recommendation. They can't force him out. That recommendation then had to go to Parliament for Parliament to vote and Parliament has a Tory majority. So Johnson could have faced that, and he could have actually come out unscathed. But he didn't. And even if Parliament had gone, Do you know what? Yeah, he is, we agree. The vote that they are gonna implement the recommendation, that would have triggered a recall in his constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip and so it would have been down to his constituents to oust him. He literally had, like, two more steps before he was ousted. And he didn't because he's such a big old coward. He didn't even choose to face those, he's just given it the whole I was forced out. Blame the blob, blame the witch hunt. Absolute bloody nonsense.
JAMES KENNEDY
I don't think Johnson cares or ever cared really, about the politics of being a prime minister. I think he just wanted to have that on his CV. I think he wanted to have the picture on the wall and I don't think he actually has any fervent, passionate ideology. I think he's happy with whatever the fuck just to get the gig, you know, and then move on to the next. And you mentioned Trumpism. And I think that is exactly where all this started. You know, the era of the strong man, this post truth era that we live in now, where words can mean whatever you decide they mean. And you've got these posturing rich motherfuckers who will just swing in and out of politics. They have their moment in the sun. They've got it on the CV, on the portfolio and then they're out the door again because they don't really care because none of it affects them.
That's the vibe I get with it with this lot. And it's the same with Sunak, I mean the guy is worth so much fucking money. He clearly ain't doing this for the money. So why is he doing it? I think it's just for the ego of it all. You know, no Pun intended, but it's almost like a Trump card. You know, it's like politics is a little playground for the super rich to mess about with for a bit
MARINA PURKISS
I think it's more. I don't know. So for Johnson, I think it is. Yeah, it's a power for power's sake. I also think the longer you're in office, the more sway you've got once you leave it to earn shed loads of money. And I don't think he's done, by the way. I think from what we're sort of learning here is he's gonna use this opportunity now to basically do as much damage as he can to Sunak and even the Conservative Party. You know, other respectable conservatives like Tobias Elwood are saying as much. And then I think he is going to once the Tories lose the next election, start to position himself as the Comeback Kid and the person that can get them, you know, back into power again. I think that's going to be his, his ploy. That's again, so the reason these people get into politics - and again, I came to this so late, I was stupid and naive enough to think that people went into politics because they genuinely wanted to change things for the better or in their minds, at least for the better - but they don't. It's nothing to do with that. It's to do with, certainly with this crop, it's to do with getting into power so they can raid the public purse. And they can install sort of people, their friends, their cronies in positions so they can all benefit each other. They can shape policy to benefit themselves and they're ilk. And that explains to you why, for example, the energy bosses who we know line the coffers of the Tory party are absolutely creaming it when it comes to these windfall profits and and the windfall tax is just not even worth the paper it's written on. There are so many loopholes that, basically, if you reinvest, if the energy companies reinvest, they don't have to pay that windfall tax. Well, that's funny. Guess what they're gonna do. They're gonna reinvest and all that means is more drilling. Wonderful.
JAMES KENNEDY
Yeah, how convenient. I mean, would you describe this as a kleptocracy?
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah, completely. Or is it a Cackocracy. Just like full of really crap people
JAMES KENNEDY
I think that probably sums it up better. But, I mean, I don't want to keep harping on about this, but, you know, there is a genuine criminal element to all of this, you know? I mean, if you look at some of the characters that this government is rubbing shoulders with and opening doors for and lining the pockets of, you know, it's some super shady characters man from, you know, Uzbekistan and the, you know, Russia and the Middle East. And, you know, the sort of dudes that are buying up properties in London and stuff like that to stuff money from their public purse into. And much of these billions are coming from illicit means.
MARINA PURKISS
Just last week. Sorry, James, just last week I just have to mention an Egyptian. I think he was linked to the dictatorship out there. He actually gave the Tories just last last month, their biggest donation of five million pounds. As if he's like some philanthropist that doesn't want something back. And then you learn later that he's hosted dinner parties in his Belgravia House where he's invited people like Rishi Sunak and Kwasi Kwarteng and as if they aren't having chats about stuff. You know what if kwasi kwarteng was having a chat to him about, like, you know, what he was doing pre-minibudget. It's so wrong. It's so scandalous in any other walk of life it wouldn't be allowed to happen.
JAMES KENNEDY
And you're bang on because those environments are where the conversations happen as well. They don't just happen out there in the open in the eye of scrutiny in the houses of Parliament. They happen at these benefit gigs and these, you know, these dinner parties. And off the record, it's a community. It's a community that is like a million miles higher above where the rest of us live and operate. And it operates for its own self perpetuation.
MARINA PURKISS
Exactly and it operates within WhatsApp, government WhatsApp's that the government doesn't want to hand over now. And do you remember as well when, you know that Lord Bethel, James Bethel, like he lost his phone and it was then it was broken, and he gave it to a family member like he wouldn't hand over his phone because he was embroiled in the whole PPE scandal because he was the health minister that oversaw lots of the awarding of contracts like, we're talking multimillion pounds and, yeah, he was the same. He didn't want to hand over his phone because they do all of this stuff like you say, not thinking that, you know, we should have be privy to it. We absolutely should. This is our money. And these are government comms.
JAMES KENNEDY
Yeah, People seem to forget, I think, because it's been bad for so long now that we forget that there is supposed to be certain standards and values to the conduct of politics, you know, which is just, they're just long gone. I think, like in the pandemic in the Trump era, I think that it just took a bullet in the ass that whole system of doing things. Now it's you can say what you like, it's the macho man thing. You can lie openly, and it's all just a laugh. It's not a problem. It's about making loads of money for the few. It's like they don't even have to cover it up anymore. They don't even give a shit, really, because there's no recompense.
MARINA PURKISS
And this is Johnson's legacy, and we saw it then continue with Liz Truss with the bullshit that she would talk in the Commons and it goes on with Sunak although he and Truss couldn't deliver it with such aplomb like you listen to him now, Jesus Christ, he's like a busted Woody doll, like he just says the same shit over and over again on repeat. And he sounds so false, and he's got absolutely zero charisma, I don't know if he's human sometimes the way he talks. But like PMQ's now as well, like if you if you hear some of the discussions that go on in Parliament, it's infantile, like a question is asked, and the opposition bench will just respond with a dig that's not even in response to the question. It will just be like something to do with Corbyn or something to do with Jimmy Saville, like it's become so base the level of discourse in this country and that has gone through right through to the electorate. In fact, I was listening to LBC this morning. I was listening to Nick Ferrari's show because it's good to keep an eye on what these people talk about. And some guy called in and he was saying he wasn't happy with the Tories, but he was never no, he was never gonna vote for Labour. And Ferrari said, why is that? He said, Oh, because they're gonna make a dog's dinner of the country and Ferrari, fair enough actually said, well do you not think the country is already a bit of a dog's dinner? He said, yes, but Starmer will make it worse because he doesn't even know what a woman is.
JAMES KENNEDY
What?!
MARINA PURKISS
What, exactly James. What The F
JAMES KENNEDY
Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head around that one
MARINA PURKISS
You remember he had that interview with Nick Ferrari on his LBC show where he was asked to define what a woman was because of the whole trans debate, and Starmer was probably nervous around the topic and scared of saying the wrong thing. So he ended up sort of dancing around it and it sounded like he was unable to answer the question. And that has stuck with him because it then was like it just snowballed. It was covered in the mass media, and now the thing is Starmer he can't rule the country, he doesn't even know what a woman is.
JAMES KENNEDY
Oh, God, yeah, no, I see what you're saying, man. It's depressing, isn't it? That's where we're at in 2023.
MARINA PURKISS
That's what happens when you've got the majority of the press with the really loud voices, the sensationalist press and they know it's effective. You see these headlines, the Daily Mail, like it lands messages and see when you've got that against the opposition, it's tough. I mean, look at what Starmer has done. He had a donkey sanctuary and they tried to make that into a scandal. Can you imagine if Starmer had done a fraction of the shagging and the scandal and the corruption, like, can you imagine
JAMES KENNEDY
It'd be game over. Dead in the water? Well, look at Corbyn. I mean, you've got a lifelong anti war campaigner there labelled as a fucking racist, you know, I mean, whether you agree with the guy's politics or not, you know the guy clearly is not an anti-Semite, you know. And neither are most of the people that are getting tarnished with that horrible label lately. You know, they seem to be like we're living in an era now where somebody can be a racist or an anti-Semite because someone says they are and that's good enough. Well, it's not good enough, you know, it's like the idea of truth and tangible facts is irrelevant these days, you know. But these are such loaded terms that as soon as someone says that, it's game over for you, there's just no going back.
MARINA PURKISS
I know and that still reverberates, that people still think there are still, you know, which in Kier Starmers defence, he is doing a good job to literally stamp out anything as soon as there is any whiff of anti-semitism or sort of, just dodginess really, he has been really quick to straight away get that person out of the party. We saw it last week. I think with Geraint Davies, the Labour MP, who I always thought was pretty decent. Like we used to DM every now and then. And then he had to step down for allegedly bringing hookers into the houses of Parliament. I think, like to the bars. Well, it sounds like a lot of fun, doesn't it
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, I'm not shocked because I thought that was quite standard fare
MARINA PURKISS
It's like a flat house in there basically. That's my understanding
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, I've been in there once. Have you been in there at all?
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah. I went to the House Of Lords recently. I met with, you know, Baroness Jenny Jones went for lunch with her.
JAMES KENNEDY
She's cool. I was in the House Of Lords, funnily enough as well in September as part of a talk on Brexit in the music industry. It was bizarre being in there. You know what I mean? You mentioned frat House, to me it felt like going back to school a little bit. It was all so old fashioned and weird, and you did get the impression that they could be very much like a boys club or a frat House. You know, where they're locked in a certain period in time where you can just do what the fuck you like and none ofit matters.
MARINA PURKISS
And you can do what the F you like James. Just bear in mind as well, so Boris Johnson, yes he has stood down now, but he was still an MP, right? He was still taking that 80K plus salary and he was off doing gigs in Vegas, taking millions of pounds doing speaking gigs. And also, if you're going to Vegas and you're listening to Johnson, you are not doing Vegas right. He's taking millions of pounds, still taking his salary despite the fact he missed 187 votes in the Commons
JAMES KENNEDY
That's fucked up man out
MARINA PURKISS
How's that allowed?
JAMES KENNEDY
Well it just infuriates me though, you know. I mean, I try to distance myself from it now, on a day by day because it's just fucking relentless, and it just makes me so fucking frustrated and angry, You know what I mean? So how do you deal with this? How do you navigate being immersed in this as intensely as you are? You must feel like you're losing your mind sometimes.
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah, yeah. Basically, anger is my fuel.
I just can't stand that it's just so unjust. I think it's just the scale of it. You expect a few bell ends, you expect a little bit of corruption. You expect a little bit of rule breaking. But this is just on an industrial scale. It is every day, and it is getting worse and we need to do something about it
JAMES KENNEDY
1pp% and that is the clip I'm going to use for the promo. Well, you've mentioned Kier Starmer a few times now, so let's switch gears and let's talk about the wonderful opposition that we have. And I'd love to know what your thoughts are on the Labour Party and their current incarnation. I'm not gonna say what I think. We'll just see where this goes. So Labour, what do you think?
MARINA PURKISS
Ok, I feel like I'm gonna caveat this by saying in the next election I will be voting for Labour, and the reason I'm doing that is because in my constituency, the best hope of making sure a Tory doesn't get in although it is a Labour constituency anyway, our best hope is to vote Labour, so I would encourage anyone, if you want to get the Tories out, vote tactically and then close to the time there will be websites and stuff telling you who to vote for to DC the Tories. So I will be voting Labour. That said, I'm completely disillusioned with them and I am disappointed with them. But with some of the things they're doing, I understand the stance they're taking. So the Brexit stance, which pisses me off, which pisses loads of people off, which makes us feel politically homeless, I understand it. I understand why they don't want to make the next election about basically another de facto Brexit referendum. Because if they talk, if there's any talk whatsoever about, even just realignment with the EU, the Tories and the right wing press will spin it as he wants to reverse the will of the people and you can see that the reason is because they're doing it now.
So think about how final Kier Starmer has been when he's talking about Brexit and where Rachel Reeves, just the other day, she said, the future of the of the UK is outside of the EU. You can't get language that is more final. And yet the Tories, the right wing press, will still tell you that they want to bring us back into Europe. So that's why they're having to do that. So I understand that as much as I hate hearing it. What I don't like, though at the moment is I understand Labour wants to be a party of government. But right now, right now, they are an opposition party, and when you're in opposition, you have to oppose stuff. And when you've got the Tories in power, you have to oppose the shitty bills. Authoritarian, democracy undermining bills that they are passing, the public order bill, for example, like the very already authoritarian public order bill, the one that saw people arrested for just thinking about protesting. If you thought that was bad, that's actually getting worse. And I just want to give you a little update on that, because, what the government is doing, so they wanted to change the wording of serious disruption within the public order bill to meaning anything more than minor. Anything more than minor, right. And they couldn't do. It was thrown, the Lords threw this out. And yet the government are currently trying to use a ministerial degree, something that has never been done before to overturn the vote of the Lords to make this change. And Baroness Jenny Jones, the Green Party peer I just mentioned who is an absolute bloody ledge. she tabled a fatal motion to try and kill this dead and tomorrow, so it's the 13 of June we get the results of that fatal motion and what she needs here, she needs the Labour lords to back her in this and for some reason, some unknown reason at the time Of course, they weren't backing her. Like Labour needs to oppose this stuff. I don't get it. Like Kier Starmer said about the public world, you know, will you repeal it when you get into power? And he said something about letting it bed in
JAMES KENNEDY
What?! No, no, no, you don't let fascism bed in
MARINA PURKISS
Yeah, like and there's so many other bits and pieces, like, you know, we want to hear that you're gonna chuck out things like illegal migration bill that breaks international law and will cost us like £6 billion over two years. For what? We need to hear that you don't like the Rwanda plan. We need to hear what you're gonna do. There are so many things we need to do to repeal or just tell us, guys, this is awful, we're going to try and fix it. Or do you know what I think a real vote winner would be? Something along the lines of we will launch a full investigation into the fraud behind basically Covid, the VIP lanes the corruption. Because I think so many people, that we need justice. We need the funds to be recovered, and we need those people to face justice because otherwise it's just like, what is the point? And it feels so wrong that anyone else, like a person committing benefit fraud can be jailed for what? Swindling the system of a few grand. And yet you can swindle the system in Michelle Mone's case, allegedly for hundreds of millions of pounds and go and buy a yacht, and nothing happens. So anyway, I understand what they logistically they're probably really difficult to do. But I think there are certain things that people want to hear, like proportional representation. Kier Starmer my word, Kier Starmer back in the day when you know you still gave pledges and made pledges that we quite like the sound of and you know, you stood by them. He promised proportional representation and he understood, and he said out loud that in our current first past the post system, you know, people feel that their vote is wasted, which it is. I wouldn't vote Labour if I had a choice right now, but I'm going to because I have to and so many people feel the same way. I'd probably vote Green or maybe Lib Dems. I'm not sure, we'll have to have a look at their manifesto closer to the time - and he's ditched that now. And that to me, is if you are pro-democracy, you you need to be pro-proportional representation because that means everyone's vote matters and the conservatives are shitting their pants about this as well. Lord Cruddas who is just embarrassing. To be honest, he's the one that allegedly paid for his peerage. He's another one of these deluded and disciplined stooges of Johnson desperate to get him back. Lord Cruddas actually stood up at that Nazi event, you know, the national conservativism event. And he said, if Labour get in, they're going to deliver a proportional representation and that means the Tories will never get in and you'll never see a Tory majority again, something like that. And the hilarity behind it is proportional representation is democratic, it means votes match seats. So if you're saying out loud that proportional representation won't deliver Tory governments, then you know that's because the majority of the electorate, like voters, do not want a conservative government. And I thought you guys were all about the will of the people. What are we talking about here? Yes, Bananas.
JAMES KENNEDY
Oh, man, That was a beautiful rant. Thank you for that man. I needed that. And just like I said about your your amazing podcast, the Trawl at the start of our chat here, you know, listening to you, man, it's like political therapy. You know what I mean? I feel like recharged, refreshed. I feel like there's sanity in the world. I got a bit of fire in my belly. I'm ready to start my week again
MARINA PURKISS
But on that James, we love making it because I don't know about you. I don't know what your friends are like, but my friends don't talk about politics and they don't care for it. And so if you feel the way we feel but your friends, your family aren't interested in it, it can feel quite lonely and like, isolating at times. So us making the podcast, people listening to it does feel like you said, like, collective sort of therapy.
JAMES KENNEDY
Oh, definitely, man. You know, the podcast is brilliant, dude, and I'll be plugging the podcast at the end of this episode, and I'll be linking it into the episode description as well so people can go directly and check out the awesome The Trawl podcast with Marina Purkiss and Gemma Forte. You will not regret it. And I totally echo everything you've said about the Labour Party as well so far because I do understand, you know, the difficult corner that they're forced into. But I do share also a deep and intense sense of disillusionment and disappointment in that party, the party that I've been a member of my entire life. I've now been a member of the Greens for the past few years, as a result of all the things you've mentioned, you know, the Blair right, backstabbing and infighting. You know, the watering down of any traditional or effective Labour principles, pandering to big business and the media. But mostly because of how fucking useless they've been to pose any kind of effective opposition to the absolute reckless evil behemoth that is the Tory party and and the unrestrained carnage that they've been wreaking on this country for the past 13 years. It's like it's so bad now and has been for a long time that it's like it's such a shame that that's what we've got. You're our guys. This is the opposition. Well, then we're fucked and part of me thinks that Labour know that the next election is pretty much a given, you know, that things have been so bad now and that the hatred for the Tories is so universal that I think they know that the next election is going to be a Labour landslide and that it's already in the bag. But I think that even if that's the case, there is going to be a bad taste left in a lot of people's mouths for a long time to come with that party.
MARINA PURKISS
But how taken for granted do you feel as well? Would do you say to all the people that basically want to rejoin the EU and what do the polls tell us now? It's a massive chunk of people now that want to rejoin the EU, and we're just, like, politically homeless. We're just ignored. We don't count.
JAMES KENNEDY
Yeah, well there's an optimist in me that thinks that maybe, you know, once we oust the current cartel and we get a new Labour government in, you know, despite the aforementioned shortcomings, maybe it could be the start of a new chapter.
Maybe it's the start of a slow, frustrating, messy, complicated, full of sacrifice, kind of rebuild and a restart in the right direction. The problem that you know there's still the enemies. The bad guys still have a majority influence over Parliament and, of course, the media.
MARINA PURKISS
Sorry just to add, which is why I think a coalition government is the best case scenario because I think if we have a coalition government, they could help. If it's the LiB Dems and Greens for example, they could help keep Labour honest. And that could at least be the sort of, it gets Labour out of having broken promises because it's the, you know, they are seen to have to be negotiating with their coalition partners, and that's how we can get some of these good policies in. But just also what you said about the Tories, and you know, I do not think this is an open and shut case. We have got what, potentially another 16, 17 months until the general election. I don't doubt that the Tories could swing it still, somehow, a lot could happen
JAMES KENNEDY
I fear you might be right, man. Well, I consider myself a pessimist, funny enough. And someone said to me the other day that a pessimist is essentially an optimist that has been burned too many times. And that is definitely the case for me because I never thought we were going to vote for Brexit. I never thought Trump was gonna get in. I never thought Boris was ever going to get in. I didn't think we were that fucking stupid. But time and time again in successive order, it's just bam, bam, bam! And it's like we're voting for this shit and supporting it and finding ways to justify it. So I've become a pessimist. But I am holding out hope for this one because it is so bad, it is so desperate, it's so bleak, so corrupt, so wrong, so evil and so fucking destructive that it cannot get any worse. And we cannot be so stupid and so naive that we're going to vote for these guys again. But you might be right, man. You might be right. I shudder to think it, but you might be right.
MARINA PURKISS
It's the hope that kills you James.
JAMES KENNEDY
It does. It really does. Well, speaking of hope, I wanted to ask you. You said earlier that anger is your fuel. But what about hope? You must have hope, you know, for a better future, you must have hope that the fight is winnable. You must have hope for there being a point to all this and that justice will prevail. So what keeps you hopeful?
MARINA PURKISS
So I don't always feel hopeful. And in fact, I chat to, do you know Femi? Femi Oluwole, he's brilliant. You need to follow him. He's incredible. He's a force for good. He was massively anti Brexit, but he sort of dispels lots of myths. He's got a huge following. He's one of the good guys and we message every now and then and, you know, we sort of go through periods of despair like, Oh, Jesus, like what's happening here. And he told me this line, and it was actually a Martin Luther King line. He basically said, look, we will get there and the quote by Martin Luther King was the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. And if you look at history, we do have this, civilization tends to go from really bloody into this shit. And then we come out of it again, and then we go back into it again. And it just feels like it's inevitable that we are in our huge downturn right now, and we are probably still not at the bottom yet. And I don't, I've never seen, I could never have predicted our government to be so broken. I could never have predicted the damage that one party could do so quickly, certainly in the last few years. So I just think we're having to sort of crash and burn, and then we will rise from the ashes like a phoenix, and hopefully I don't know if Starmer is going to be the one to help us lift that phoenix but, we'll get there
JAMES KENNEDY
Love it, love it. And what does a better future look like to you?
MARINA PURKISS
So, first and foremost, I think to get that you have to do something with the press in this country because I think the gutter press is responsible for so much. With just poisoning the political discourse in this country and the stoking of the culture wars, which creates so much hate and animosity between groups that it's just, it's just made us a bit sort of, a bit of a nasty. It feels like a nasty country. Sometimes I think some sort of press regulation, I think I read that the spectator and the telegraph are going bust, did I dream that, or did I read that? We just need them all to just bugger off Or, you know, we need Murdoch to pop his clogs. We just need them all to just bugger off because they are like, I think they were described as a cancer Once upon a time. They are a cancer. They need to go. And then into our politics, I think forget who's at the helm. I think that the policies that will really shift things are we need to tackle inequality in this country, right, because, you know, welfare is not about just the welfare of the people right at the bottom rung of the ladder. Welfare, when you hear about welfare, it's about all of our welfare. Because if people get really poor and people get really desperate and really desperate people make you know it, it is a worry for everyone in society, not the people just at the bottom. So I think we need to have a real look at our welfare system. I think we need to have a real look at public sector pay for example, I think no one should be in full time work and still having to claim universal credit. The fixing of the NHS. We need to address that and also it's really simple, I know there's all this middle management chat and there's loads of waste and that all needs to be targeted. But for me, the most important thing short term, recruit more doctors, recruit more more nurses and retain them.
That's gonna solve a lot of the problems. I think we need a more progressive tax system by the way. And I look, I don't like paying taxes. No one does, but I will pay higher taxes if I know my taxes are going into public services like schools, like hospitals or whatever, like building houses for people, so that, you know, the next generation of people can actually afford to get on the housing ladder. And I've got no problem with the wealth tax. Absolutely tax the shit out of those bastards. But there's a reason why, and I'm not talking about, you know, Brenda, who's on, like 60K plus, I'm talking about if you earn 250K, 500K, 10, make it progressive, go for it because, you know, we saw it with the published tax returns of Kier Starmer and Rishi Sunak and this is, you know, the effective rate of tax that the two of them pay on very different sums that they earn shows you how unjust our taxation system in this country, that you can have basically a nurse paying a higher effective tax rate than a billionaire tells you everything that's bloody wrong with this country. So I think if we fix that, if we scrap things like non Dom, if we stop things like the offshore, you know, squirrelling away of money, it could bring in a lot of money for this country. If you look how much is lost in fraud, by the way, in this country and offshore and tax avoidance and tax evasion, it is a lot. It could give us, like gold, stellar public services if we manage to clamp down on that. But, there's a reason the Tories don't want to do that. So basically I'm listing, oh and green stuff. Actual credible green plans as well to insulate our homes right. Insulate Britain, they're onto something because we have got the shittiest houses in the whole of Europe where when it comes to like, efficiency, we leak heat through our doll houses. They look like doll houses. By the way, in comparison to other, European countries, we leak heat through them, which is both inefficient from an energy perspective, but massively like, terrible in terms of how much we spend on our bills and then look at our bills. We've got like one of the highest energy bills on the planet.So you've got a question there about, nationalising energy, which I know is going to cost you shit loads of money and I know there's absolutely nothing in the coffers at the moment so possibly a plan for the long term. But water, I think maybe look at nationalising water now but that might be something I don't know.
We just need to make it so we take the money out of the corporations or take the power away from the corporations, put it back to the people because there is no way a privatised company are gonna do anything to try and benefit us when they have got shareholders as the priority to answer to and make money for. So there we go. I feel like I've just reeled off a load of stuff. But I think all of that stuff would make things better. Oh, hang on one more - and mental health services. I think we massively need to improve that and youth services and education. And then because if you fix those things now, you don't get all of the problems in the long term that they cause if you neglect them right now. But we've got such short sighted, inward looking, selfish government who don't think like that and they know that if they are struck by any of the problems in education, they go private or any of the problems in health care. They go private, which is why they don't care to fix them. So that is what I would do.
JAMES KENNEDY
Wow, Dude standing ovation, man, That was my favourite rant of the year
MARINA PURKISS
I'm sorry, James. It's like you Wind me up and watch me go.
JAMES KENNEDY
No, man. Dude, that was insane. That was insane. Off the cuff just like that, I just sat back, shut up and just let it wash over me. Thank you for that man. That was beautifully delivered. And I agree with everything you say as well, I think most people listening will too because it's just normal, sensible, good, common sense stuff that benefits everybody. You know, you're not some flag waving, raging socialist, you know, this is all above board, very non controversial stuff. You want to make life better for the majority, not the 1%
MARINA PURKISS
I didn't realise I was a lefty. I just thought I wasn't a knob, that was it. I didn't realise.
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, you've certainly got a few enemies who will probably disagree with that. But good. Because, you know, a man with no enemies is no man at all, I think is the saying that I stole from a TV show the other night, which I thought was pretty, yeah, I like it. So I'm gonna have to let you go soon, Unfortunately, because I could listen to you talk all day, as I'm sure the listeners could
MARINA PURKISS
My husband says exactly the opposite
JAMES KENNEDY
I'm sure he does ha ha
MARINA PURKISS
A lot of people say 'God imagine being married to her'
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, yeah, he probably does deserve an award of some kind. But now, So if people want to hear more, where can they find you?
MARINA PURKISS
So I'm on Twitter at MarinaPurkiss and if you want a bit of this sort of little chat sort of in funny bits, but real insight and analysis, then have a listen to Gemma and I, at the Trawl podcast. And we have some very good listeners. James O'Brien listens. Gary Lineker listens. Carol Vorderman listens. It's good stuff. It will make you feel good, hopefully at the end of it as well
JAMES KENNEDY
Well, that's not a bad listenership right there. And a million other people as well as you just mentioned, you know, also tune in. And it hasn't been going that long, right? You haven't done 100 episodes yet?
MARINA PURKISS
No, we're on episode 69
JAMES KENNEDY
That's insane, dude. But there we go. You know, people agree with this stuff. They want to hear it. It's the majority viewpoint. And the podcast is on every platform yeah? Spotify, Apple? Yeah. So Check it out. I will be putting links to your pages and the podcast in the description of this episode as well. Marina, thank you so much. I thoroughly enjoyed that. Like I said, I could have done another hour Just sat back listening to you ranting all day and giving me that therapeutic political charge that I need to start my week. Thank you so much for everything you do. You're an asset. We appreciate you. And please keep sticking it to them Because God knows, we need you more now than ever.
MARINA PURKISS
Awww thank you James. It's been a pleasure
JAMES KENNEDY
Any time. Thanks, Marina. Take care out there, man. Speak to you Soon. Bye.
Marina Purkiss guys, put it together for her. How awesome was that? Dude, like I said it a few times, So that was literally just cathartic therapy for me. It's so refreshing to listen to someone just telling it like it is, free from spin, free from agenda, free from bullshit. Just saying the things that all of us think. But in this kind of weird post-truth era that we now live in, we're all having to do this weird, delicate linguistic semantic thought dance all the time and you start to think, am I going crazy? I don't know what I think anymore. Is that too simple? Am I naive? Have I got the wrong end of the stick? And when someone just comes along and just fucking says it like it is, it's so goddamn refreshing. And in this worryingly weird era of misinformation and disinformation and amplified by social media and the press, we need that more than ever. And all of us can have a duty, I think, to tune into that voice within us that knows what we think and knows that it's right and just says it like Marina Purkiss. So I'm a fan. And I hope she continues being Marina Purkiss and sticking it to the man. I hope she never has to fucking fit within some kind of corporate straitjacket or anything like that. I don't get the impression that she's that kind, and yeah, I hope that like she keeps doing her thing because it's a very valuable asset that she brings to the cause. As she mentioned, she is on Twitter. That's kind of like one of the main things you should definitely be following if you want to get a, you know, minute by minute random updates and opinions, which are all awesome, by the way. She's on Twitter at MarinaPurkiss So it's Marina spelled the usual way. Purkiss. Definitely give her a follow there. And also her insanely awesome podcast is called the Trawl. And you just get it wherever you get your podcast, I mean they've also got a Twitter page at thetrawlpodcast as well, where you can get each episode coming out there. Definitely give that a listen if you like what you heard today then you should be listening to the Trawl. It is a weekly shot in the arm of goodness and sanity and good reason and fire in your belly that will get you informed and fired up, ready to kick some asses. So rush over to your podcast platform of choice and type in the Trawl, hand it down and give it a follow, a subscribe, a like and a share and leave a comment and review and all that good stuff. As I've said 1000 times on this podcast, it really helps us guys to continue to do what we do. And whilst you're there, if you haven't yet subscribed to this goddamn podcast, go do that as well. James Kennedy podcast is available on all platforms. Give me a like, a share, a rating, a review or comment or whatever the hell you got to do. And I will love you forever.
As I said at the very start of this episode, this will be the last episode now for at least a few weeks whilst I focus exclusively on finishing the book and getting the band, gig ready. But please do rest assured that season two of the James Kennedy podcast will be back really, really soon. Bigger and better than ever. I've got some insane guests already lined up and confirmed and booked in. I can't wait. I actually don't want to take the break. I'm just doing it because I have to, just because there's only so many hours in the day and I've got to finish this book, OK, I hope you understand. But in the meantime, please do go back. Like I said and listen to the previous episodes. I don't think anybody has listened to all of them yet, and every episode deals with a different issue with a different expert and a different set of knowledge that is gonna help you in some way in your life. So go and nibble on all those previous episodes and I'll be cooking up Season two behind the scenes and we'll be back in an eye blink. Honestly, it's gonna fly by. James Kennedy and the Underdogs are gonna be on the stage within the next few weeks. So if you haven't already, please go to JamesKennedystuff.com/tribe and whack in your email address in your city and we'll be updating everybody as soon as we get some tour dates in which will not be long, I promise you. So do that. You will not get spammed. It's just so that we can see where there is demand for us in which cities and when. Then we'll be turning up and fucking doing it, man. So whack it into JamesKennedystuff.com/tribe and I can't wait to see you all really, really soon. In the meantime, take it easy. Check out Marina Purkiss, Fight the power, Keep sticking it to the man, Take care of yourselves, Take care of each other. I love you loads, and I'll see you really soon. Cheers, guys.